Wednesday, May 10, 2006

Does Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism?

In the past several years I have heard the same nauseating complaint over and over again:

"If I criticize the State of Israel, I am automatically accused of anti-semitism"

This claim has been made by many, including Arabs, Europeans, Leftists, and even some Jews!

For those who are suddenly so concerned about being labeled an anti-semite, simply ask yourself the following question: Do you in any way criticize Israel's right to defend her citizens? If you do then you are an anti-semite, plain and simple.

62 comments:

Nemo said...

The people that critisize Israel aren't complaining that they are defending themselves. Their complaint is how they attack others!

There starts the contention...

kasamba said...

Right on Freak!!!
I agree 100%!

The Jewish Freak said...

Nemo: Welcome to the Jewish Freak. You are correct, however I would contend that the charge against Israel of attacking others is just another way of criticizing her right to defend herself.

The Jewish Freak said...

Kas: Thank you. The tribe needs as many of us as possible to see through the manure.

Stacey said...

With all due respect, Nemo, that kind of statement cannot be spoken in a vacuum. I mean, really....Israel does not target innocent civilians.

The real me said...

Some people use Israel as a way to hide their anti-Semitism.

Then you have all the lefty nuts who are all against any aggression against 'the hungry abused Arabs' in any country that they may be in.

Then you have the Jewish Anti Zionist.

So in response to your Q. It depends who is doing the hating.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

Anti-semitism is evident because you usually find the people who critisize Israel do not go out of their way to critisize Saudi Arabia for example.
Even some holocaust deniers try to differentiate examining the number of Holocaust victims as not being anti-semitic.
Most often, the case for almost every Holocaust denier is that they dislike-hate Jews first...then they look for faults. The same is true of many Israel haters.
I have a pest commenter on my blog named Steve. He says he is all about equality, human rights, etc. He recently wrote on his blog a letter he sent to his congressman about the need to immediately give the Palestinians aid. He views the Israelis as the aggressors of course, as many on the left do.
But I outed him, I asked him if he was such a humanitarian, how come he hasn't written any letters about Darfur, or any posts about Darfur on his blog.
He said he couldn't cover all the worlds injustices.
Meanwhile in Darfur 2 million innocent people have been driven from their homes and 200,000 have been murdered/slaughtered/butchered by Arab Muslims.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The Jewish Freak said...

Stacey: Good point. Anyone who has any sense understands that Israel does not target innocents. Unfortunately, there are many people out there with little sense and loud voices.

Real Me: I believe that it is all Jew-hatred in disguise. Even when coming from Jews.

Bacon: Great point! One of the saddest parts of the Darfur tragedy is that the motivation of people and world governments to criticize Israel is stronger than the motivation to help the victims of darfur.

bernarda said...

Zionists are simple judeo-nazis. And Israelis do target civilians, including women and children, intentionally.

"One of the most vicious incidents occurred in the town of Qalqiya. Soldiers entered the house of workers and poured gasoline over them, setting them alight. Six workers were covered in flames. Four of the victims managed to rush out of the building and rolled on the ground, ripping off their clothes. Two were severely burned and are in critical condition.

On February 20, two youths were arrested in Khan Yunis, beaten savagely and taken to the beach where they were buried alive under the sand. After the soldiers left, villagers managed to dig them out.

Reports in the establishment press give a glimpse of the scale of Israeli brutality. A soldier’s account reported in the Israeli newspaper Hadashot was cited in Newsweek:

We got orders to knock on every door, enter and take out all the males. The younger ones we lined up with their faces against the wall, and soldiers beat them with billy-clubs. This was no private initiative. These were the orders from our company commander. [13c]"

The Israeli terror policy also applies to the racist settlers.

"Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin announced that Israeli civilians have the same authority as soldiers to shoot. He added that soldiers need not fire warning shots before shooting Palestinians. [13f] Newsweek was more explicit: “The decree meant Israeli soldiers could shoot to kill Palestinian youths ... Yitzhak Rabin [was] effectively deputizing settlers.” [13g] The decision, according to Newsweek, would “open the floodgates of the 60,000 settlers’ pent-up frustration [sic].” It was not long before an attack occurred. On April 6, settlers engaging in a clear provocation shot in cold blood a Palestinian working in his field outside the village of Beita."

http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/pref.htm

For a comprehensive explanation of zionist imperialism and colonization, read the entire site mention and go to this one.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

zionism is a crime against humanity.

The Jewish Freak said...

Bernarda: Why don't you peddle your bullshit elsewhere.

The real me said...

LOL

The real me said...

Funny thing is that if we were to comment like that on one of their web sites they would delete it.

The Jewish Freak said...

Real Me: You are correct. The haters of Israel hate the truth as well.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

So about Bernanda trailing me. She has been following me around like a plague lately.

bernarda said...

It is zionism that is a lie; everything Israeli jews have they have stolen from the Palestinians.

Israel is no different than nazi germany.

The Palestinians are the same as the Polish resistance fighters combatting Hitler's armies.

And I have no interest in following that racist baconeatingzionistjew around. But it doesn't surprise me to find him among another group of zionist fundy fanatics.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

Bernarda, I know you were visiting my blog today. I know your IP address, so don't pretend you aren't obsessed with me.
Israel stole nothing. It was never Arab land, ever. There was never a country there. Arabs only owned 20%, Israel was formed more legally than most countries on the world map today.
I compare the Palestinians to destructive retarded children. They aren't worthy of any other comparison. That is all they are.

Stacey said...

How lame of Bernarda to spew these lies and not even have a link/blog behind her "name."

Bernarda, what about all the other Arab countries who kicked out the Palestinians? I assume you are lambasting them, too!

bernarda said...

Just a couple of examples of jews who don't agree with the equation.

"Some critics, especially on the left, allege the ADL willfully exaggerates the prevalence of anti-Semitism, especially among Muslims. The critics also claim that the ADL defines legitimate criticism so narrowly that even moderate analysis of Israel could be categorized as anti-Semitic.

For example, linguist and activist Noam Chomsky wrote in his 1989 book Necessary Illusions:

"The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S.… These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement."

Michael Lerner, a prominent left-wing rabbi, has criticized the ADL on similar grounds:

"The ADL lost most of it credibility in my eyes as a civil rights organization when it began to identify criticisms of Israel with anti-Semitism, still more when it failed to defend me when I was receiving threats to my life from right-wing Jewish groups because of my critique of Israeli policy toward Palestinians (it said that these were not threats that came from my being Jewish, so therefore they were not within their area of concern).""

from wikipedia on ADL.

Many links at the end.

The Jewish Freak said...

Blah Blah Blah...

bernarda said...

So, jewish freak, do you think Noam Chomsky and Michael Lerner are anti-semites?

The Jewish Freak said...

Bernerda: I absolutely do.

jim said...

see my post on my blog http://spiritualhebrew.blogspot.com where there is a Post 'Israel and the World, Catch the Time' which presents an excellent article which has the full history of the peoples of the Land of Israel researched, and proves historically, who has right to that land called Israel, besides all the modern reasons. The Article is entitled, An Everlasting Peace.

jim said...

Oh yes, PS: Jewish Freak, it is nice to meet some Real Jews here at your blog, Thanks, you make the World a far better place, now if we could just get everyone else up and at em. Your great, made my day.

bernarda said...

Interesting, a comment on "real jews". That must mean that there are jews who are not zionist terrorists, people like Chomsky and Lerner for example.

There are also others like Norman Finkelstein, Alfred Lilienthal, Lenni Brenner, and many others. Just as there were many Germans who didn't support nazism.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

No Bernarda, Jim means Jews not anti-semites like you and Chomski.

Of course you know that, but you can keep telling us what we are supposed to think.

Is it true you were married to an Arab Muslim who beat God out of you, turning you into an Atheist who had to move to France?

The Jewish Freak said...

Jim: Thank you for your kind words. Glad to have you on board!

jim said...

Thanks, I am pleased to be here. Sounds like Bernanda fails to see Nations as the Big Pictures that they are best seen in, you can pick any nation to death. Israel is even more than a Nation, Israel is a Global Statement on Humanity.

And I agree with you Freak, the criticism is to prevent right of self-defence by Israel. The world in general is against Her existence and the Statement that She is. Hopefully more will come around to Her side.

bernarda said...

The existence of Israel is a global statement of inhumanity. It was created by white racist Europeans in the 19th century who believed in the superiority of white people over all others around the world.

These white supremacists believed that they had the right to go anywhere and take whatever land they wanted. That is exactly what the jewish terrorists and colonists did in Palestine.

The only anti-semitism today is that which is invented, propagated, and encouraged by Israel and its zionist lackeys abroad.

As there is no justification for the existence of the "jewish state", they have to create the illusion and fear of some threat. That imaginary threat is called "anti-semitism".

baconeating is a good example. Recently on his blog he started talking about the "new" anti-semitism. That is exactly the point. The Israelis have keep inventing "new" forms of anti-semitism because nobody believes in the old myths any longer.

Along with that, they play the professional perpetual victims, "There is no business like Shoah business".

The Jewish Freak said...

Bernarda: You are a perfect example of a mind ruined by hate. Your head is so far up your ass you wouldn't recognize a rational idea if it squirted you in the mouth.

PS. If you have an argument with bacon, take it up with him on his blog, or better yet, why don't you start your own.

bernarda said...

I was responding to your fanatasies about "anti-semitism". I just used baconeating as an example. If you read the thread, you will see that it is your buddy baconeating who has a fixation on me.

You are the one who is called everybody and his uncle an "anti-semite". I have consistantly stayed on message to the title topic. But I am not surprised that you try to divert the subject. You should tell the other guy to take care of his own blog.

Frankly, I don't have the time to take care of a whole blog. If I did, I wouldn't see the interest in only having people who agree with me respond. Take talkradio for example. No one would listen to it if the host didn't have naysayers to rant at.

The Jewish Freak said...

Bernarda: Have you even noticed that I have not deleted any of your comments?

bernarda said...

Yes, jewish freak, and I highly respect you for it. You seem to have a clear idea about what you want to do with your blog and for me it is what blogs are at least partially about, i.e. exploring all sorts of opinions.

You at least are intelligent enough to try to understand what the enemy is thinking. That seems sensible to me. Maybe it is not sensible for me to post here. But I am not going to continue just to engage in polemic.

Enough said for me on this particular board. If another different subject seems interesting, perhaps I will contribute.

As you see, I don't really send that many posts here. I usually participate in posts on major media because I find a wider variety of contributors.

I also prefer other subjects.

But though I strongly disagree with you here, I think you do a good job.

bernarda said...

Just a footnote. With one exception, the only sites I have been ejected from have been islamic sites. They don't seem to like my criticism of islamic religious fanaticism--a double pleonasm. For me, any believer in islam is a woman-hating fanatic. I don't believe that women can really believe in islam.

I have just as strong a discourse about the absolute stupidity of the koran and its illiterate misogynist terrorist prophet.

You might want to consult the site, Apostates of Islam.

Anonymous said...

Just a side note: is there anything (religious or otherwise) that bernarda does agree with? It seems she is the only one ranting about anti-semitism. I think JF's comment regarding her mind being ruined by hate is an excellent insight. What a miserable existence she must lead filled with such a need to spew venom on every subject. What, no friends anymore bernarda?

bernarda said...

utilisiteur anonyme. It is not a debating point or an arugment to attribute motives to your opponent. The validity of the facts or the arguments stand on their merit, regardless of what motives there may or may not be.

Attributing motives to discredit a point of view is neither rational nor logical. I am an atheist, but it doesn't help my position just to say that someone is wrong because they are a christian, for example.

A well-known biologist and defender of evolutionary theory, Ken Miller, says he is a practicing catholic. That neither adds nor detracts from his arguments in the defense of scientific evolution.

Should one say that one doesn't believe in evolution because Miller is a christian and one doesn't agree with his beliefs? If I were to say that he is only defending evolution because he sees it as a way of bringing people to the church, that would still not affect the validity of his arguments.

The same with if I am unhappy, hateful, and friendless. True or not true that has no importance to the arguments themselves. So what you think of me personally is irrelevant.

If a muslim doesn't like it that I say islam is a misogynist ideology, he has only to give arguments to show that I am wrong. Using charged words like "ranting" or "spewing venom" does not address the truth or falseness of a position, though it is often effective in the uninformed public mind. Just because it is effective propaganda does not make it more true.

Anonymous said...

Debate is based on fact not feeling. If you wish to discuss fact that is one thing, but your arguments are based on your feeling about a subject. Name calling (judeo-nazi for example) is based on feeling not fact. The force of emotion behind your subject matter is rife with anger. You do not discuss how Israel/jews have been abused throughout the centuries, a humans right to defend themselves against abuse, etc. The power of your arguement is lost due to your hatred that is so visible. You rant not discuss.

Anonymous said...

PS bernarda: If you wish for your argument to be taken as more than propaganda you need to list references with your comments. As stated previously - if you wish for me to consider your argument as fact based then I need more than your propaganda.

bernarda said...

utilisateur anonyme. Maybe I can explain in a way simple enough even for you to understand.

Spinoza(and I am no way comparing myself to him, but for some people you have to connect the dots)was condemned by the religious and community leaders of his time for being an atheist and maybe even a hateful person.

He was expelled from his community and ostracized for his ideas. However, he was right and his persecuters were wrong. His name is still known worldwide and his analyses are still highly respected.

The names of his religious persecuters have passed into oblivion.

But it is doubtful that a s__t for brains like you has ever heard of Spinoza. (this guy is looking for abuse so I will humor him)

And in fact I have given references and links. Can't you read? Do you know how to use links?

To remind you, try

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

among others I posted.

"You do not discuss how Israel/jews have been abused throughout the centuries, a humans right to defend themselves against abuse, etc."

"abused throughout the centuries". What does that have to do with anything? How is that a justification for anything. Are you talking about revenge? Revenge against whom?

What is this? The Hatfields against the McCoys?

So, don't the Palestinians also have the right to defend themselves? Or do you think the Palestinians are not human?

Please try to learn something about logical argument.

Jack's Shack said...

And in fact I have given references and links. Can't you read? Do you know how to use links?

You haven't really given much of anything, just a couple of tired old remarks and the things that you cut and paste from other sites.

Plagiarist.

bernarda said...

I have seen this "insult" of "plagiarist" several times recently coming from extreme rightwingers. They somehow seem to take that as a supreme insult. But they don't seem to have a clue either as to what it means.

Quoting writers and giving them credit is not plagiarism.

It is funny. One poster wants me to give sources, ignoring the fact that I had, while another accuses me of plagiarism for giving the sources.

Finally, it doesn't matter if you call me a plagiarist or not, nor if I am a plagiarist or not. The arguments presented are the same in either case. So, if you disagree, you have to deal with the arguments themselves.

Jack's Shack said...

I have seen this "insult" of "plagiarist" several times recently coming from extreme rightwingers. They somehow seem to take that as a supreme insult. But they don't seem to have a clue either as to what it means.

I understand perfectly what it means. The answer is that you didn't come up with your response on your own.

You went somewhere else and lifted someone elses ideas. That shows that you do not understand the issues well enough to argue them on your own.

And the fact is that you didn't respond here. You didn't provide any support to refute the claim and since I googled your comments it was obvious to me that they were stolen.

You haven't the tools to engage in honest dialogue and frankly I am too freaking smart for you. If I used a pinky worth of knowledge on you the result would be like a nuclear bomb of knowledge exploded in your lap and you might find that this results in blood streaming from your nose.

Not because you were phyiscally assaulted, but because your little neurons were overloaded.

Truth is the ultimate defense against lies and once again you are proven to be the loser.

Game, set and match.

Out!

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

It is OK to give a reference to a point, or to make one point. Bernarda just spews out link after link after link, many by self hating Jews who have bought the myth that Israel is on Arab land.

Lakewood Venter said...

Well said!

Vile Blasphemer said...

The issue is null anyway- every ethnicity on Earth is guilty of some kind of militaristic land grab or political cloak and dagger.

Bernarda, do you hold this disdain for EVERY religion or just Judaism and Islam?

bernarda said...

JackShack, "I understand perfectly what it means. The answer is that you didn't come up with your response on your own."

So I suppose Jack came up with is zionist myths all on his own. He didn't read any history or analyses to make up his mind.

Actually, it might not even surpise me since zionists have never been interested in historical fact. They just follow their pretext, "The bible says so."

Atheistbacon at least has said he is not interested in learning anything. He is content with his religious belief in zionism.

If I make any more comments, it will be in the new topic above.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

I said I'm not interested in your delusional crap sources Bernarda. I'm always interested in learning.

Do you take meds? Zionist religion? ROLMAOAY

Rabbi Seinfeld said...

"You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - this is God's own truth... All men of good will exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less... And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism... Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews - make no mistake about it.”

(This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., pp. 234-235.)

Anonymous said...

See in Paravda English Main Forum how they hate Jews, Zionists and Israel http://engforum.pravda.ru/forumdisplay.php3?forumid=2

Anonymous said...

Israel's policies of apartheid against the non-jews in Palestine are the root of the violence in the region and modern day Islamic terrorism worldwide. As long as Israelis continue to fight fire with fire, the flames will grow higher. Can we not turn to peaceful and loving examples of history like Gandhi and Mother Teresa to resolve seemingly insurmountable conflict. Ambition & arrogance is blinding, and violence & fear is the coward's path.

Oh, Lord, I pray for a secular future!

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